Frank asked some great questions about this post. I like Frank because he actually thought through his response. Frank, in the comments, thinks of himself as one of the ‘old guard.’ I disagree, because he considered what I said and came back with reasons he felt differently. True members of the ‘Old Guard’ typically have emotional responses to anything new that are rarely based in deep thought about a topic. Frank obviously thought about his response and is open to dialog. I love that!
So, lets dive into the conversation. (Make sure and read the post and the comments for context. I’m going to break up my response into several posts on the different points Frank made in his comment. ) Frank says:
I sum it up this way – a demonstration of authentic Christian community is the foundation of all effective outreach.
First, I think that you can live in true community online and off. The converse is true – you can live in fake community online and off. Here is the point for Believers – if you obey the ‘One another…’ passages, that will result in the kind of community that exists between obedient believers. It shouldn’t matter if you are online or offline. So, I don’t think this will be any more of an issue for online churches than it is for offline churches.
Second, I disagree with the premise of the statement. Frank, I don’t know if you intended it, but your statement implies that we can go into lost areas, set up churches, and simply being there and living in community will result in transformation and people coming to Christ. We know from experience this doesn’t work. Chrisitan communities are highly cultural reflections of the way a particular group of Believers choses to obey Scripture. They are often incomprehensible to foreign cultures. If I take an American Christian community and put it in India, it will most likely be ignored. What makes a difference is when new Indian Christians start obeying Scripture on their own and develop their own flavor of Christian community. This new community is enough like the surrounding community – and different enough – to capture the attention of lost people in the area. I cannot create an Indian church because I am an outsider. As Indians obey Scripture, they will create churches that make a difference within their context.
The same is true for the online culture. Even though many of the online generation in the USA live within walking distance of a church, the church community is completely foreign to them. They don’t understand the language. They don’t understand the customs. Consequently, that representation of Christian community has almost no hope of reaching them. We need to plant the Gospel into existing online communities and watch the kind of communities that emerge as people begin to obey. Those communities will be more relevant to an online world than offline churches are.
Frank, if you had creating an indigenous church in mind all along, forget what I just wrote! Let’s go onto the next statement on community:
My conviction is that God’s ideal pattern for evangelism is to immerse unbelievers into Christian community where they will see the love of God lived out among Jesus’ followers and thus become convinced of the love the Father has for them.
I cannot find evidence in the Bible that says that bringing people into Christian community is the way to reach them. I do find evidence that going to new places and forming new Believers into spiritual communities is the pattern God establishes for evangelism. Matthew 28:16-20 talks about this (baptism is the process of establishing Chrisitan community.) so does Luke 10 (Going into new communities to plant the Gospel.) I cannot find any evidence where a group of Believers go into a new community, set up a church, and start winning the community. That is a modern missions approach to evangelism that hasn’t been as effective as we hoped it would be.
Anyway, that is all on this topic for the day. Please comment and let me know what you think. I think this conversation is important, because we really need to examine all we do under a microscope of constructive criticism so that we can grow.
{ 3 comments… read them below or add one }
Paul: Another great articulation of some issues that I’ve been wrestling with. Jesus talks about being salt and light and our deeds shining before men, so I’ve always wondered about the power of Christian witness in proximity … but I also know from experience that it is truly the rare case when just hanging around or recognizing the great love of Christians leads to repentence. That requires an explanation of the gospel for the conviction of sin. Perhaps the good deeds earn you the right to speak, but that’s pretty much it … thoughts?
@Nick – I don’t think we do ministry to earn the right to speak – even though ministry within the community does create a good reputation among the lost. Instead, we minister 1. because we love people and 2. to find the person of peace described in Luke 10. A Luke 10 strategy is the only strategy that I have found to focus missional activities in a way that results in Kingdom expansion. Otherwise, social gospel and missional behaviors are just PR activities for the church rather than part of a strategy to reach the lost.
Hi Paul. I appreciate your response. A few notes:
YOU WROTE: “First, I think that you can live in true community online and off.”
I RESPOND: I’m not convinced that online community can be as deep as face-to-face community. In online community, if I don’t like what you say, it’s easy to turn you off. It’s not so easy in face-to-face community, although it’s still possible in some ways. In face-to-face community, you know where I live and it’s not so easy to ignore you.
While I can see how many of the one anothers of the New Testament could be fulfilled in an online environment, there are some that I’m not so sure about (besides the obvious “Greet one another with a holy kiss” , 1 Corinthians 11:33 (”when you come together to eat, wait for each other”) and 1 Peter 4:9 (”Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling”) are good examples.
On the other hand, some one anothers would seem to be easier in an online environment – Hebrews 3:13 (”encourage on another _daily_”) is a good example in today’s busy society (with online communication being able to facilitate the “daily” part).
It would be interesting to see how you think the one anothers can play themselves out in an online arena.
My thoughts on this might be colored by what I experienced living overseas (in West Africa) and then comparing the depth of community experienced by the West African church with the lack of community I observe in the American church. I wonder if we think online community can be just as deep as face-to-face community can be because we haven’t really experienced the depths that face-to-face community can go.
Reading the paragraph I’ve written just above, I realize that it’s hard to say something like that without sounding arrogant (as if I was saying something like, “I’m the only one who has really experienced community so the rest of you don’t know what you’re talking about”). But that’s not what I’m intending – just trying to place my hesitancy about online community in context. I’ve only participated in / been exposed to certain areas of the world, and others may have different experiences.
YOU WROTE: “Frank, if you had creating an indigenous church in mind all along, forget what I just wrote!”
I RESPOND: I absolutely had creating an indigenous church in mind!
YOU WROTE: “Consequently, that representation of Christian community has almost no hope of reaching them.”
I RESPOND: I agree wholeheartedly! But that doesn’t mean a face-to-face community cannot (and I would say is better positioned to) reach them. I live in Santa Cruz, California – a place where the statement that traditional expressions of Christian community have “no hope of reaching them” is probably more true than anywhere in the United States.
And yet, people like my friend Chuckk Gerwig (http://www.sacreddigital.com/ and http://www.elevationsc.org/) are reaching those that many in Santa Cruz thought were unreachable. How? Part of it is by using technology to its fullest (check out one of Chuckk’s online projects for example – http://www.sacredink.net). But another part (and I would argue it’s an essential part) is through face-to-face community.
YOU WROTE: “I cannot find evidence in the Bible that says that bringing people into Christian community is the way to reach them …. I cannot find any evidence where a group of Believers go into a new community, set up a church, and start winning the community.”
I RESPOND: I believe that the Scriptures I cited in my comment on your original post imply that the unity of believers is a necessary part of the salvation process. An unbeliever needs to see the love of God lived out among Christ’s followers before he/she will believe that God loves them. I don’t see any other way around Jesus’ statement in John 17 – “that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and love them, even as You have loved Me.”
But notice that I’m not necessarily saying that the unbeliever needs to be immersed in a traditional church (in fact, it’s often true that a traditional church is the last place you’ll find Christian community!). Perhaps “immersed” is the wrong word because it may have suggested church attendance. That’s not what I’m saying.
But I do believe that the unbeliever needs to be exposed to Christian community in enough depth to witness the love believers have one another (Christ’s love expressed through them). The community of believers in a local area should be living their life out in full view of the city – in parks and skating rinks; on soccer fields and taking walks together through their neighborhoods; in backyard barbecues and in restaurants. Instead, most churches today life their life out behind closed doors. The online generation thinks today’s church is irrelevant because it is.
But if the online generation were to see with their eyes the community of believers living out the love of Christ in sincerity (and without all the stupid trappings of Christianese, hierarchy, etc.), it wouldn’t matter if the believers were different culturally – the love of Christ lived out among believers transcends culture.
NICK WROTE: “Jesus talks about being salt and light and our deeds shining before men, so I’ve always wondered about the power of Christian witness in proximity … but I also know from experience that it is truly the rare case when just hanging around or recognizing the great love of Christians leads to repentence.”
I RESPOND: Nick, maybe that’s becuase the “love of Christians” they see is not so “great.” That being said, I agree that an explanation of the gospel in some form is necessary. It’s the love of Christ lived out among believers that creates the opening in the heart of unbelievers to give attention to the gospel.
Just my opinion, of course.
Frank